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Presumed Deceased WA - Laura Macke, missing in Olympic National Park; Oct-Nov 2022

Naughty Pine

Hangin' Out
It could be a shoe? LM often wore sneakers rather than boots. Bad choice on this trail, especially in the rain, with slick logs, etc.

She'd have hope of survival without a shoe, though....
And I don't see how you'd spot a shoe in the water, if our speculation about a tipster spying something going over the the falls is correct.
 

Naughty Pine

Hangin' Out
Maybe the air mattress? It's yellow. One of those MSR Exo things. It could have just floated down the river.
It was prolly one of the uninsulated ones, too. That won't make any difference for flotation, but sleeping on it would have FROZEN you, because it puts a cold layer of air beneath you. Just like bridges on the highway "freeze first", because there's air under them, not ground. LM might not have known this. She likely had the model you use in VT in the summertime. Unless she maybe had a piece of closed cell foam with her she could put on the top? Doubtful: "too heavy".

But, yes, it could definitely be that air mattress. I don't think they'd have to conclude she was dead if they found the air mattress, though. It would have been useful deflated as an extra ground cloth, but it definitely wasn't necessary for survival.

I'm of the mind: sleeping bag or water bottle.

And, yes, I'm so annoyed at "ultra lighters". I always have been, because they depend on others to take care of them with stuff they don't want to lug themselves.
 
G

Grok

Guest
Y'all have pretty much covered the bases. I get annoyed at what extreme weight-conscious hikers put others through, too. They don't want to "pull their weight" in my experience. Off the top of my head, they also seem very accident-prone, as far as needing rescues.
 

I Am A Rock

For Real
NPS requires bear canisters in the Enchanted Valley. SAR could have found…. Snap, wait, well, weight…LM likely wasn’t carrying one…
Oh... Well, the NPS site says they have bear poles at Pyrites. Interesting: if LM didn't have a bear canister, but she was going to camp at Pyrites, and there was no food sack on the bear pole there.....

I have trouble imagining LM made it to Pyrites. It was raining too hard, she had no experience that could be relied on (though I guess she thought she did), and took inadequate stuff.

NPS Food storage info (including canister requirements) for the Olympics
 
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Sora

In the Groove
Oh... Well, the NPS site says they have bear poles at Pyrites. Interesting: if LM didn't have a bear canister, but she was going to camp at Pyrites, and there was no food sack on the bear pole there.....

I have trouble imagining LM made it to Pyrites. It was raining too hard, she had no experience that could be relied on (though I guess she thought she did), and took inadequate stuff.

NPS Food storage info (including canister requirements) for the Olympics
Respectfully bolded by me.

This case has really stuck with me for several reasons.

One, the weather. Pouring rain. Maybe she thought rain is beautiful and therapeutic, which I guess in certain other cases could be true. But there on your own, rain is just miserable and life-threatening. How and why did she enter into that situation?

Two, related to bolding above, and this is surely my own bias, but to hike 10 miles with elevation change in one day to Pyrites, you would need to be at a certain level of physical fitness, and you’d need to be training.
Please correct me if I’m wrong here because my hiking experience is very limited even though I’m a fantastic armchair hiker.
I’m in good physical shape - I walk 3-5k almost every day and am muscular and not overweight. Even so, for me to do 10 miles in one day with elevation change would be a challenge and something I’d need to focus on building to. Was LM at that level of physical fitness?
And if not, why did she think she was?
It’s so disturbingly and in the end life-threateningly unrealistic.

Three, the bear canister. Is it possible she planned on traveling light by carrying a rope to hang food instead of a bear canister? Also, how does it work with the rangers, do they check you this time of year? How often do the rangers pass through? Is it possible LM didn’t have a bear canister?

Four, why has NPS found almost nothing and will we ever hear anything? Or will this story just fall away without any final reports?
 
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K

Kaboom!

Guest
Respectfully bolded by me.

This case has really stuck with me for several reasons.

One, the weather. Pouring rain. Maybe she thought rain is beautiful and therapeutic, which I guess in certain other cases could be true. But there on your own, rain is just miserable and life-threatening. How and why did she enter into that situation?

Two, related to holding above, and this is surely my own bias, but to hike 10 miles with elevation change in one day to Pyrites, you would need to be at a certain level of physical fitness, and you’d need to be training.
Please correct me if I’m wrong here because my hiking experience is very limited even though I’m a fantastic armchair hiker.
I’m in good physical shape - I walk 3-5k almost every day and am muscular and not overweight. Even so, for me to do 10 miles in one day with elevation change would be a challenge and something I’d need to focus on building to. Was LM at that level of physical fitness?
And if not, why did she think she was?
It’s so disturbingly and in the end life-threateningly unrealistic.

Three, the bear canister. Is it possible she planned on traveling light by carrying a rope to hang food instead of a bear canister? Also, how does it work with the rangers, do they check you this time of year? How often do the rangers pass through? Is it possible LM didn’t have a bear canister?

Four, why has NPS found almost nothing and will se ever hear anything? Or will this story just fall away without any final reports?
So, let me have a go at these one by one…. I’m speculating.

1. LM began in that weather because she convinced herself she was “experienced” and above a little rain. I believe this because her family kept describing her as “experienced”; maybe they heard it from her and didn’t really think through what that looked like? IMO her hiking history was that she “did miles”; this is not the same as acquiring skill at decision making in wild spaces, nor is VT anything close to the PNW.
Real experience would have had LM abandon her plan just by looking at the forecast. There’s plenty else to do in WA.
2. From what I can guess (otherwise I can’t think of any reason at all for this plan), LM was used to “doing miles”. That’s kind of a thru hiker thing; she wasn’t a thru hiker, but there are other signs (like pack weight consciousness beyond all else) that she wanted to think of herself in that vein: hardened by miles.
She might have thought of herself as a “low 20’s” hiker. But, as you point out, the 9-10 miles to Pyrites is quite a haul. Plus, let’s not forget that she evidently drove to the trailhead that morning, and it got dark maybe 5:30. AND the weather. And she would have had to get water at least once (depending how many liters she carried, and getting water was going to be a challenge so as not to have an accident.
She might have planned on long trails rule of thumb of 2 miles per hour and wasn’t impressed by the elevation gain. EZPZ.
Yep, hiking by the numbers: ALL of it.
3. The bear canister is mandatory, per the NPS. Bears that are habituated to human food can become dangerous, and have to be put down. An exception would be Pyrites, where NPS had a bear pole. It’s like a metal flagpole, which theoretically bears can’t climb. You attach your food bag to it, and haul it up like a flag.
But the plan was to go to Enchanted Valley. A bear canister is mandatory for EV. However, her family didn’t include it in the list of equipment, and she was so weight-conscious, I doubt she had one. And, yes, she could have got a ticket if a ranger saw her without one. If she enticed a bear by not having a bear bin, and it attacked someone, I would imagine she could be liable as well. But really, I doubt she had one.
4. It’s not unusual for missing hikers never to be found. With that much water (apparently 8” her first day), she could have been washed out to the ocean. It’s right near by.
Hope that helps.
I can’t think of any reason LM ever set foot on that trail except she was in awe of her own experience and thought she was trail superwoman or something. Even without the weather, she was taking colossal risks. Did anyone try to set her straight before she took off?
 

Sora

In the Groove
So, let me have a go at these one by one…. I’m speculating.

1. LM began in that weather because she convinced herself she was “experienced” and above a little rain. I believe this because her family kept describing her as “experienced”; maybe they heard it from her and didn’t really think through what that looked like? IMO her hiking history was that she “did miles”; this is not the same as acquiring skill at decision making in wild spaces, nor is VT anything close to the PNW.
Real experience would have had LM abandon her plan just by looking at the forecast. There’s plenty else to do in WA.
2. From what I can guess (otherwise I can’t think of any reason at all for this plan), LM was used to “doing miles”. That’s kind of a thru hiker thing; she wasn’t a thru hiker, but there are other signs (like pack weight consciousness beyond all else) that she wanted to think of herself in that vein: hardened by miles.
She might have thought of herself as a “low 20’s” hiker. But, as you point out, the 9-10 miles to Pyrites is quite a haul. Plus, let’s not forget that she evidently drove to the trailhead that morning, and it got dark maybe 5:30. AND the weather. And she would have had to get water at least once (depending how many liters she carried, and getting water was going to be a challenge so as not to have an accident.
She might have planned on long trails rule of thumb of 2 miles per hour and wasn’t impressed by the elevation gain. EZPZ.
Yep, hiking by the numbers: ALL of it.
3. The bear canister is mandatory, per the NPS. Bears that are habituated to human food can become dangerous, and have to be put down. An exception would be Pyrites, where NPS had a bear pole. It’s like a metal flagpole, which theoretically bears can’t climb. You attach your food bag to it, and haul it up like a flag.
But the plan was to go to Enchanted Valley. A bear canister is mandatory for EV. However, her family didn’t include it in the list of equipment, and she was so weight-conscious, I doubt she had one. And, yes, she could have got a ticket if a ranger saw her without one. If she enticed a bear by not having a bear bin, and it attacked someone, I would imagine she could be liable as well. But really, I doubt she had one.
4. It’s not unusual for missing hikers never to be found. With that much water (apparently 8” her first day), she could have been washed out to the ocean. It’s right near by.
Hope that helps.
I can’t think of any reason LM ever set foot on that trail except she was in awe of her own experience and thought she was trail superwoman or something. Even without the weather, she was taking colossal risks. Did anyone try to set her straight before she took off?
Yes, I think one of the reasons this case mystifies me is the lack of being realistic on any level. With regards to weather, season, physical capacity, and whether her assessments or her family’s.

I did read a comment of a friend that said Laura loved going on her “adventures”, as the friend phrased it. This attitude about adventure could help explain why she was trying something more difficult, more, well, adventurous. This disconnect between what is adventure and what is folly is very sad.

Also, grimly, I still wonder about how a body could not be found. The ocean is a bit far since a body would have to pass uninhibited by any objects (fallen trees, rocks) and past many curves in the river, and then the river arrives at Lake Quinault. From the lake, the river continues onward winding back and forth again with many curves before reaching Taholah and the ocean. It just seems odd that an object (body) would not at some point snag on something in the curves of the river.

I would assumed they have searched (or dragged?? not sure dragging is possible?) the river from EV down to the lake?
 
K

Kaboom!

Guest
Yes, I think one of the reasons this case mystifies me is the lack of being realistic on any level. With regards to weather, season, physical capacity, and whether her assessments or her family’s.

I did read a comment of a friend that said Laura loved going on her “adventures”, as the friend phrased it. This attitude about adventure could help explain why she was trying something more difficult, more, well, adventurous. This disconnect between what is adventure and what is folly is very sad.

Also, grimly, I still wonder about how a body could not be found. The ocean is a bit far since a body would have to pass uninhibited by any objects (fallen trees, rocks) and past many curves in the river, and then the river arrives at Lake Quinault. From the lake, the river continues onward winding back and forth again with many curves before reaching Taholah and the ocean. It just seems odd that an object (body) would not at some point snag on something in the curves of the river.

I would assumed they have searched (or dragged?? not sure dragging is possible?) the river from EV down to the lake?
Guessing. I haven’t really looked at a map of the river to see where a body could actually go. But it was so swollen with rain, IMO it would just carry a body on the top layer. BUT you’re likely understanding this way better than I can.

They must have used drones over the river, since they did use drones, and that was the only place clear enough except EV.
 

Trippy

Right On!
Yes, I think one of the reasons this case mystifies me is the lack of being realistic on any level. With regards to weather, season, physical capacity, and whether her assessments or her family’s.

I did read a comment of a friend that said Laura loved going on her “adventures”, as the friend phrased it. This attitude about adventure could help explain why she was trying something more difficult, more, well, adventurous. This disconnect between what is adventure and what is folly is very sad.

Also, grimly, I still wonder about how a body could not be found. The ocean is a bit far since a body would have to pass uninhibited by any objects (fallen trees, rocks) and past many curves in the river, and then the river arrives at Lake Quinault. From the lake, the river continues onward winding back and forth again with many curves before reaching Taholah and the ocean. It just seems odd that an object (body) would not at some point snag on something in the curves of the river.

I would assumed they have searched (or dragged?? not sure dragging is possible?) the river from EV down to the lake?
When is something an adventure, and when is it folly? That’s such a helpful way of putting it. Nutshell.

It’s so odd to me LM picked this location out of all the hundreds of possible locations she could pick that would make for a reasonably safe little trip with low airfare. Some have primo climate right now. Joshua Tree, Death Valley, Big Bend, Organ Pipe.

Yeah, folly.

I looked it up in OU Press, and the building meaning came up. I went to metaphor for this whole debacle: “a costly ornamental building with no practical purpose”. So that.
 

Sora

In the Groove
When is something an adventure, and when is it folly? That’s such a helpful way of putting it. Nutshell.

It’s so odd to me LM picked this location out of all the hundreds of possible locations she could pick that would make for a reasonably safe little trip with low airfare. Some have primo climate right now. Joshua Tree, Death Valley, Big Bend, Organ Pipe.

Yeah, folly.

I looked it up in OU Press, and the building meaning came up. I went to metaphor for this whole debacle: “a costly ornamental building with no practical purpose”. So that.
Interesting about the building meaning, I didn’t know, but I see your point.
I meant folly as in “lack of good sense or normal prudence and foresight”.
But I get the analogy considering the resources spent.
 

Trippy

Right On!
Interesting about the building meaning, I didn’t know, but I see your point.
I meant folly as in “lack of good sense or normal prudence and foresight”.
But I get the analogy considering the resources spent.
Totally. All you say. The building sense of folly wasn’t a primary meaning, but gave me a picture of an edifice (LM’s trip) that took a bunch of fancy and irrelevant details and plonked them in some kind of “fake natural” setting. Visitors were supposed to admire the clever little (irrelevant) embellishments. To me, follies always look out of place.
Maybe LM wanted kudos for her “clever little (irrelevant) embellishments”. But most people would go, “that’s nuts!”
 

One Fat Marmot

For Real
It was prolly one of the uninsulated ones, too. That won't make any difference for flotation, but sleeping on it would have FROZEN you, because it puts a cold layer of air beneath you. Just like bridges on the highway "freeze first", because there's air under them, not ground. LM might not have known this. She likely had the model you use in VT in the summertime. Unless she maybe had a piece of closed cell foam with her she could put on the top? Doubtful: "too heavy".
Been there, done that, while staying at someone's house one night. I slept on a lovely, big, cushy, air mattress and FROZE my duff. I didn't get any sleep at all.
 

One Fat Marmot

For Real
I can’t think of any reason LM ever set foot on that trail except she was in awe of her own experience and thought she was trail superwoman or something. Even without the weather, she was taking colossal risks. Did anyone try to set her straight before she took off?
SFF (Snipped for focus)

I haven't met any truly experienced outdoors people think of themselves as super-skilled. An important piece of "experience" is they know nature's unpredictable and challenging, and there's always the chance of an accident.

There are wannabes out there who think they have a handle on nature. They don't. But they call their trail mileage "experience".
 

Sora

In the Groove
Ok so this was on Facebook in the last day, someone asking for info on the piece of equipment of LM’s that was found, and asking why the family won’t release this info. They asked if it they were not releasing the info because of risk to other hikers, and the family member responded yes partly.
So does this mean there is a criminal investigation with a possible murderer possibly targeting other hikers??
Attaching screenshot here.
 

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Twiglets

Diggin' It
Ok so this was on Facebook in the last day, someone asking for info on the piece of equipment of LM’s that was found, and asking why the family won’t release this info. They asked if it they were not releasing the info because of risk to other hikers, and the family member responded yes partly.
So does this mean there is a criminal investigation with a possible murderer possibly targeting other hikers??
Attaching screenshot here.
I didn't take this to mean "potential crime", although maybe.... I took it to mean more simply that it was found in a place they don't want other people to go because they might get hurt. I'm gonna go with the falls near the trailhead. Bunch Falls?

If there were a potential crime, we would have heard about it from NPS LE.
 
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